[GAP] Regarding Cyril's Reply to My Rant

[Ted Baker]

Question:

> "I wonder whether any other educational institutions are still teaching
> Ada."

Partial Answer.

Here at FSU we have no regular course in Ada.  However, I've
managed to push Ada into our Programming Languages class the last
two times I taught it (this year and 2005), but I only succeed at
the expense of a few more negative student surveys at the end of
the term (e.g., "Why don't we learn a language that is widely
used, like [fill in the blank with Java, Perl, C#, etc.]?", "Ada
is too much to learn in a few weeks.)  I feel pretty sure I could
raise my teaching evaluation a notch or two if I gave up on this
and followed the trend, and maybe replaced Ada in the course by
one of the scripting languages, say Ruby or Python.  I just
persist out of some kind of stubbornness.

It is true that we don't have much time to learn Ada.  For a
project this term, the students are translating a tiny Prolog
intepreter from Scheme into Ada.  In the same
term, they learn enough Scheme and Prolog to do a little
programming, as well as basic parsing (LL(1) & recursive decent)
and translation (attributed grammars), and also basic proofs using
precondition-postcondition semantics.  I gave them a bunch of
Ada code to get started, including a package that implements 
LISP list structures (controlled, with reference counts), to
save time, but it still quite a stretch.  There is certainly
no time for multi-tasking or for the niceties of generics,
class hierarchies, streams, etc.

--Ted

On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:58:23AM -0800, Riehle, Richard (CIV) wrote:
> Cyril,
> 
> I guess I missed the Ada edition of Crosstalk.
> 
> You are closer to the ground with regard to new initiatives
> that are using Ada.  I am happy to hear that you see more
> happening than seems apparent from my vantage point.
> 
> The DoD projects that I see coming through here seem to be
> Ada-averse.   That is, even the mention of Ada is greeted with
> either skepticism or amused tolerance.   It is impossible to
> get funding for a research project that involves Ada.  All
> the funding agencies want to hear about is Java or, to a 
> lesser degree, C++.   
> 
> I'm sure you know that I have been a long-time supporter and
> advocate of Ada, and I am quite aware of its benefits when 
> compared to other languages.   In fact, if it were not for my
> advocacy, Ada would be completely absent from any aspect of the
> NPS computer science curriculum.  As it is, the language is barely
> visible at this school.  The speech I mentioned from the Navy 
> Admiral did nothing to help with Ada's credibility here.
> 
> What articles have been published besides the Crosstalk issue?  Has
> there been an article in Federal Computer Week?   Where else?  As you
> know, I once had an Ada column in JOOP, but magazine is now gone.  
> 
> My current teaching and research projects have made it difficult for
> me to keep active in the world of Ada for the past several years. Since
> the school is focused on C++ and Java, my attention has had to be 
> diverted to projects that use those languages.   I would like to return
> Ada to a respected language here.
> 
> When I first came to NPS, several professors told me that Ada was a dead
> language.  In 2001, one professor told me that, "In five years you won't
> be able to get an Ada compiler."  That, of course, was false then and is
> false today.   However, it reflects a widespread attitude -- one that I
> confront every time I try to introduce Ada into the conversation.
> 
> I recently offered a course that is already in the course catalog, "Ada
> As a Second Language."   There were no takers.  No one signed up for it.
> Some of my professorial colleagues continue to tell students that Ada is
> a waste of their time.  
> 
> I once published an article in Embedded Systems Magazine titled, "Ada
> in Space."  That article was read and discussed by a larger audience
> than the readership of Embedded Systems Magazine.  It would be great
> to see some articles written, not about Ada, but about the successful
> projects that use Ada.  The editor of Dr. Dobbs once told me he would
> welcome such articles, but that he was not interested in articles that
> simply described features of the language.   More case history articles
> that involve Ada would be a powerful approach to improving its image.
> 
> Meanwhile, my plan is to eventually update my book "Ada Distilled" to 
> include the new features of Ada 2005.   The fact is that no book
> publisher
> will publish a book on Ada these days, so I will continue to make
> available
> on the Web when it is finished.   
> 
> >From where you sit, Ada may seem to be making great strides, but from
> where
> I sit, right in the middle of a DoD organization, Ada seems a remote and
> 
> quaint niche language that is largely irrelevant to the day-to-day
> decision
> process.   From the perspective of book publishers, Ada seems to have no
> economic viability.   
> 
> >From my own view, Ada continues to be the most appropriate language for 
> the creation of DoD weapon systems and civilian safety-critical
> software.
> I still support, advocate for, and encourage the use of Ada.   However,
> it
> is not easy being the "voice in the wilderness" among colleagues who
> generally deprecate Ada.    I will keep Ada in that part of the
> curriculum
> over which I have influence.  Once I am gone from NPS, Ada will also be
> gone -- unless I can find some way to bring it back to life before I
> leave.
> 
> I wonder whether any other educational institutions are still teaching
> Ada.
> I know the USAF Academy and USMA at West Point continue to teach it.
> The
> US Naval Academy offers a little bit of Ada, but not the way it used to.
> Are there U.S, civilian schools, other than Dr. McCormick's school,
> where Ada is taught openly and without embarrassment?  
> 
> Tnanks for your reply to my earlier rant.  I think we need to have this
> discussion.  As usual, I am not taking a popular position, but I hope
> that
> I am still among friends.
> 
> Richard  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gap-bounces at gnat.info [mailto:gap-bounces at gnat.info] On Behalf Of
> Cyrille Comar
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:34 AM
> To: GNAT Academic Program discussion list
> Subject: Re: [GAP] Binding Problem with GNAT
> 
> Riehle, Richard (CIV) wrote:
> 
> Richard,
> 
> I understand your frustration but I must admit being a bit surprized by 
> some of your claims since they contradict very much our own experience. 
> You seem to be describing the events of the end of the 90's. Not what is
> 
> happening at the end of the 2000's. We see a clear new interest in Ada 
> coming from a community that did not necessarily follow all the past 
> history of the language and don't even know Ada 83. The interest comes 
> from the fact that Ada provides a solution to many problems that are 
> still not solved adequately by other languages/environments. 
> Furthermore, the Ada compilation technology is now much more mature and 
> proven-in-use than potential alternative solutions.
> 
> > So far, no one has written an article for widespread publication
> > announcing the advent of Ada 2005.   I have not even seen such an
> > article in Crosstalk. 
> 
> You seem to have missed the August 2006 edition that is dedicated 
> exclusively to Ada 2005!
> 
>   There is never any mention of Ada in any
> > of the DoD publications.  Not every Federal Computer Week has had
> > an announcement, as far as I know.
> 
> here again that does not correspond to my experience. We must be reading
> 
> different publications... ;-)
> 
> > Sorry for the rant.  
> 
> It is good to rant sometimes... but I felt compelled to answer since 
> your ranting is clearly not representative of the current situation.
> 
> Ada is both a very modern and experienced language. It is true that it 
> is mostly popular in the software niche where quality and reliability 
> are real requirements. A lot of the software industry privileges short 
> time-to-market at the expense of quality & reliability and this is not 
> the preferred area for Ada.
> 
>   It is also true that the programming language per se is not a major 
> focus of the software engineering community anymore. It is only an issue
> 
> for a small part of the software development cycle...
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