[GAP] RE: JEWL

[Riehle, Richard USA]

This discussion, if I understand it correctly, is about how
those of us who are advocates for Ada can successfully keep
it alive and relevant in our respective teaching programs.

In my community, Ada is fighting for more than credibility. It
is a fight for survival.   I must do everything I can to sell
it to my students.  They are already enamoured of Java.  The
competition is real.   

I did not mean to imply that fun was the overriding concern
in our educational efforts.  Nor do I believe that anyone in
this discussion is advocating boredom.   Further, some students
find delight in studying things that others find boring.  

Unlike the students in many universities, my students are not
likely to be programmers any time soon.  At some point in their
careers, they might be program officers, program managers, or
function in some other role that is decision-oriented.  One of
my objectives is to ensure that their memory of Ada is positive.

When these decision-makers are confronted with a choice between
Java, C++, and Ada, I don't want them thinking that Ada is a 
bad choice because their experience with it was so unpleasant.
That is exactly what I am dealing with now when I advocate for
Ada with the senior officers who have struggled to learn Ada
the old-fashioned way.

I don't trivialize my courses the way they do with some Java
classes.  The students are required to do some programs that
challenge them.  They learn Ada, and they learn to enjoy Ada.
It is my hope that this will be helpful in keeping Ada alive
as a choice for future projects.   Here at NPS, it is 
fundamentally dead on arrival when any student chooses 
it for thesis work.   The professors are generally opposed to
its use.   

Recently, some professors have been more accepting of Ada when
students (those who enjoyed learning Ada) propose it for 
their thesis.  At least one student is seriously looking at 
SPARK for a thesis project.   If we had a version of Ada that
was targted to Windows CE or the Palm OS, I could probably 
get some students to do thesis work for the professor who
runs our wireless program.  

One of the really bad things that happened at NPS was the 
Java bytecode initiative.   This began well and then fizzled.
Unfortunately, it fizzled in such a way that those professors
I had persuaded to consider it were left with a very bad taste
for Ada.   We need to be careful, in the future, about hyping
vaporware.   Those professors who were enthusiastic about Ada
for Java bytecode are now unwilling to consider Ada for anything
in their own research.

Richard Riehle





-----Original Message-----
From: gap-bounces at gnat.info [mailto:gap-bounces at gnat.info] On Behalf Of
Martin Mansfield
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 10:38 AM
To: GNAT Academic Program discussion list
Subject: Re: [GAP] RE: JEWL

I find myself in agreement with Robert and Tony. I believe that students
should enjoy the work but that is not the first goal. To me, the fun
part is
conquering a challenge. Whether it involves graphics is not relevant.

-- 
Martin F. Mansfield


> From: Anthony S Ruocco <aruocco at rwu.edu>
> Reply-To: GNAT Academic Program discussion list <gap at gnat.info>
> Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 11:19:26 -0400
> To: <gap at gnat.info>
> Subject: RE: [GAP] RE: JEWL
> 
> I have to agree with Robert.  There is a definite emphasis on 'fun'
lately.  I
> got the feeling at the last SIGCSE that there is a competition over
whose
> first-year coding scheme provided the most fun for the students.  As
an
> instructor in a small faculty, trying to keep up with all the
fun-things is
> worse than trying to keep up with a good lesson.
> 
> Tony Ruocco